A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (Full Version)

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The Fool -> A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (3/30/2006 1:43:26 PM)

Question:
 
What perspective do you think your banker or a prospective investor in your operation would come a way with if they were to view the contents of this board with an eye focused on? 

     1) The interest level of topics discussed that affect your every day operations.
     2) The collective problem solving ability of our industry.
     3) The industries willingness and perceived need to exchange ideas and
          to learn from others with the same challenges.
     4) Gauging the health or lack there of, of the new pallet industry.
     5) Understanding the investment worthiness of the industry.
    My gut instinct would tell me that their impression would be: The new pallet industries commitment to their own future is just plain pathetic. 
     
    We new pallet guys (or gals) have rolled over and abdicated our opportunity to use this board to OUR fullest potential, and given it to the used pallet guys (or gals). And guess what, I give them credit when it is due, they took it and some, maximize the Board for those issues that make a difference to them.  No disrespect intended, but sometimes the bantering back & forth between some of the used pallet knuckle-heads is inane , and although at times is comical, but often is does not begin to address some of the critically important issues of the new pallet manufacturers that are at the heart of our success today.  It not the fault of the used pallet crew, we are wasting a very important opportunity.
     
    Are there not ideas worthy of your time for discussion?
     
    Nailing Machines: Is Viking the only machine to use? Is The GBN set up time really that long? Is anybody happy with their Storti? What are realistic productions numbers per man/hour?
     
    Nail supply: Will the domestic quality ever be able to match up to the Asian supply?  Is North American Industrial nail really better than Mid-Continent? What about Parker and Viking? How is the new Stanley-Bostitch bulk nail? Is Stanley-Bostitch really no longer selling guns? Is Continental Nail Done? 
     
    Trucking:  How is your trucking going? Is it in house or through a contract company? How has the price of fuel affected your pallet price? Do you pass on your inbound freight increases to your customer? What about fuel surcharges? Do your customers pay without complaint? Do you have to split the charge? What about your drivers?
     
    Hispanic Laborers: Is it true that 8 out of 10 new pallets manufactured in this country are made by Hispanic employees? Are those employers guilty of backstabbing this country? Are the Hispanic employees really that much better? Does the Social Security Administration  really care if they are legal as long as the Government gets the taxes?
     
    Saw Manufacturers: Brewer, Brewco, Pendu etc. Alot has been said but I am sure there is alot more to say.
     
    Lumber Supply:  Do you cut all you lumber from logs? Or from cants and boards? Do you buy all precut? Can you trust the Canadians? What about the South Americans? Are you happy with the yield from your suppliers? Is there anything to be done about all the Auction Notices? Can we collectively do anything to help the situation?
     
    Amish Competition: Do they really work that hard? Are they honest? What really is the situation with workers compensation? Can you compete head to head, or is the deck really stacked against us English?
     
    Etc. Etc. Etc……………
     
    Ed has given us the forum, are we too lazy or stupid to take advantage of it?
     
    Best Regards,
     
    The Fool



    Fast Freddie -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (3/30/2006 8:55:43 PM)

    Thank you for your post, I think it is long over due, my business depends on yours and I am glad that some one has taken there head out of the sand and actually realizes the value this forum could have.

    As you all should know I am CANADIAN and Proud of it, and a pallet recycler at that. (Not a lumber Jack LOL)

    But, and I will apologize in advance, you didn't even let your true feelings shine for more than 15 minutes and then decided to edit your post... I hope it was for the better.

    FF



    Thoughtful -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (3/31/2006 8:26:20 AM)

    Who's head is in the sand? There is more coming back on this post.  I have no time right now, but I will.



    Fast Freddie -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (3/31/2006 8:34:38 AM)

    quote:

    My gut instinct would tell me that their impression would be: The new pallet industries commitment to their own future is just plain pathetic.

    We new pallet guys (or gals) have rolled over and abdicated our opportunity to use this board to OUR fullest potential, and given it to the used pallet guys (or gals). And guess what, I give them credit when it is due, they took it and some, maximize the Board for those issues that make a difference to them. No disrespect intended, but sometimes the bantering back & forth between some of the used pallet knuckle-heads is inane , and although at times is comical, but often is does not begin to address some of the critically important issues of the new pallet manufacturers that are at the heart of our success today. It not the fault of the used pallet crew, we are wasting a very important opportunity.

    Ed has given us the forum, are we too lazy or stupid to take advantage of it?
     
    Best Regards,
     
    The Fool


    FF



    Thoughtful -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/1/2006 6:42:29 AM)

    OK Freddie. I lost one extensive post because I took so long, and the second, though ready, I will not post. The F's post is addressed to newies specifically, not all, as you reminded me, so I will shush and see what comes of it. Thanks. I might have been too heavy otherwise.



    The Fool -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/1/2006 9:26:17 AM)

    Thoughtful,

    While it is true I was addressing the New Pallet Industry, don't feel like you shouldn't respond. It is not like this topic is being inundated by the copious amounts of chatter from all sides. Your response is not silencing them or preventing their response.

    I womder, what really is the situation? Are they afraid to answer? Have they stopped caring? Do they no longer feel their point of view is worthy? Or is it that they are no longer paying atttention to this board or view it as a value to the industy?

    I personally think, their lack of response SCREAMS mountains of attitude! That although may not bode well for our collectve industry as a whole, but for the forward thinking individuals provides significant opportunities to take advantage of their "head in the sand" attitude.

    Hey! New pallet people (competition) if you can hear me?, go ahead and keep your head in the sand, I'll do fine. 

    Best Regards,

    The Fool

    p.s. Thoughtful, I commend your diligence, but 6:43 am on Saturday morning, isn't that going a little to far?......... Wait a minute, that actually sounds like dedication, and a "Head Out of the sand" attitude.

    ssshhh....Maybe you and I can talk (off line) about mutual opportunities together while everybody else is sleeping. Are you going to Richmond? Where can we meet?



    Larry -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/1/2006 8:42:13 PM)

    First, I agree with everything you said. I was ready to give up on the board until I read your post.

    I want to see all of your topics discussed. That said lets start with nailers.  We are looking for a new nailer.  I have looked all over the world.  There are several options in Europe - Gunn, Corali, Storti to name a few.  In the US there are really only two options I have found: Viking and GBN.

    We run and have run almost every model Viking has ever made. A Viking does what it is made to do -  nail pallets. In fact, we just bought another used 505. But at the same I have concerns about Vikings. There has not been a significant upgrade since 1994.  Our Duo's produces almost the same as our 505's. So there is no way I can justify buying a new 505.  Then there is the monthly cost. I compare our Vikings to a razor. The razor is fairly inexpensive but the blades kill you.  

    Over the last month I have been looking at GBN machines. Sandy, Paul, and Raj have several great machines.  I have been to a few places to watch different GBN's run. From what I have seen a GBN will consistantly produce 2800-3200 pallets in eight hours with 4 men. It does not matter how many deck boards are one the pallet.  But, we have different concerns with GBN. The biggest being we have no first hand knowledge of GBN. Other concerns are changeover time, stringer thickness, winged pallets, lumber quality, etc.

    So what can others tell me about GBN or Viking? What kind of numbers are you getting? How much are you spending on repairs? How long is your change overtime? Am I over looking any nailers?



      



    Thoughtful -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/1/2006 10:44:42 PM)

    Good reply Larry.

    Well I lost my post again, a new one. It is really frustrating when you spend time getting it right and then get an error message. I can't even copy it off and save it to Word.  So if time is gaining and you are not finished, it is a lost cause, and a waste of precious time and effort.  In future I will write elsewhere and copy across.  Sorry Fool, you will have to wait longer.

    Dmn!



    The Fool -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/2/2006 8:42:37 AM)

    Thoughtful,

    Sounds like an excuse to me? are you stalling? are you afraid? or just being thoughtful? I anticipate you thoughts...

    Larry check you email

    The Fool



    Thoughtful -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/2/2006 9:06:03 AM)

    Hi Fool (I wish you'd change your name),

    The answer is No, No and most definitely No. Like you if I have to put some substance into a reply it does not pop out in seconds. So just hangfire with me. I can say the direction of my post has changed. I'm watching for other replies too. You need more than three to reply to your post or it will be disappointing.



    Thoughtful -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/2/2006 6:52:35 PM)

    Dear Fool
     
    No they are not afraid, have not stopped caring, do not feel their point of view is inadequate, nor feel the board is of no value.
     
    In your industry you are not at the top of the tree, hence the privilege and risk of your frankness.  The re-psycho’s (a deliberate pun) say what they want, to whom they want, when they want, how they want, because most run the business.  Being mostly smaller operations spread all over, there is a natural camaraderie and therefore willingness to share information, help each other, warn each other, and communicate publicly and privately.
     
    The newies are different.  They are bigger. They are, for want of a better word, aloof.  That is the attitude.  They do not have the need to communicate as you wish.  If they want information they obtain it themselves. Why alert a competitor to what is in mind, a new move or development, a problem or an advantage? Their competition, if any, will be more exclusive, more potent, more aggressive and more of a concern.
     
    What employee is going to risk speaking out on behalf of his business, even though unidentified, and raise suspicion by the owner(s)?  No, if a new pallet manufacturer, or similar big operator, even a pallet pool posts, it will come from at or near the top. There are checks and balances and policies in place for lower echelons. They cannot be as free with their opinions.
     
    I think you will find that is the major issue, maybe not exclusively, but primary. So no, I do not think they have rolled over or abdicated the opportunity to use the board.  Perhaps one of the silent watchers, a big one, will comment on this?
     
    On a separate matter, I quote you.
     
    “No disrespect intended, but sometimes the bantering back & forth between some of the used pallet knuckle-heads is inane, and although at times is comical”
     
    Now you might consider yourself aloof from the used pallet knuckle-heads but at least they have the freedom to banter, and be comical. There’s nothing wrong with that. The point is they are free to do it, along with all the serious discussion. They have and take a freedom the new boys cannot and do not. Maybe you should free yourself and join one of them.  Life might not be so frustrating, nor serious.
     
     
     

    [image]local://67/C655F829D0464A7EBCC1996270BB7802.jpg[/image]



    sexy pallets -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/4/2006 3:57:11 PM)

    Well F I have a little time to comment 
    we are recycling mill not a new co. but we build some new too. 

    Our trucking is not going well at all. Between break downs,wreckers, fuel, drivers, IFTA Taxes, and insurance.I think that what we are going to do is use a freight co. to do all of our out of town runs and use our trucks to do local we have done the math and it cheaper and less hassle.



    The Fool -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/5/2006 12:06:57 PM)

    Lets Pretend:
    • That the whole pallet industry has become one big happy company.
    • All of the individual pallet companies are separate branches of that same big happy company.
    • All existing Presidents and CEOs of those individual pallet companies are now General Managers that report directly to Me.
    • All of the GMs, are expected to be in touch, and on top of all pertinent issues relating to their facility, and the company as a whole.
    • It is expected that they will be be active participants in working together with others within the company to learn as much as possible from each other to collectively minimize costs, and maximize profits.
    • The larger the facility, the higher the expectations of viewable, tangible indicators of results.
    • I use the Pallet Forum as one of the indicators of your results.




    Its now that time of year for your annual review.



    You're Fired!



    ElvisLives -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/5/2006 2:00:21 PM)

    As a recycler in this industry I challenge all you new pallet builders to keep raising your prices so I can take your customers.LOL  This will work out great till all the cores dry up...



    ElvisLives -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/5/2006 2:55:36 PM)

    quote:

    What perspective do you think your banker or a prospective investor in your operation would come a way with if they were to view the contents of this board with an eye focused on?ORIGINAL: The Fool

    GOD I HOPE THEY NEVER READ THIS S**T. It would be confirmed that some of us are a bunch of big headed cry-babies. Anyways who really gives a s**t if some banker or prospective investor reads this. This board was created for the people and by the people. Isn't that what drew you here in the first place? This board is made up mostly of recycled pallet knuckleheads. So? I just so happen to be one of them. I very much enjoy the bantering. I also realize that when I want answers to a question I ask it. I don't have to rely on the rest of the board to start a topic for me. I understand your concerns and all but I believe that if you were to ask ONE specific question at a time you might get better results. Elvis Lives cheers



    sexy pallets -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/5/2006 4:43:43 PM)

    I think the big thing is some times we are really busy and at least everybody out there is reading it, I try to post when I think of a good subject or when I see one. I always make sure that I read whats going on.
    Gotta go today's one of those days.



    sexy pallets -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (4/5/2006 5:09:57 PM)

    PS... we better stop whinning about who's posting and who's not and start writting or they will get bord and stop reading too, then we will only have 4 members   LOL



    tenumm -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (6/20/2008 4:41:01 PM)

    This might be helpful to you

    www.nailerman.com

    Hope that helps !!



    Adam -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (6/24/2008 11:57:57 PM)

    Thoughtful,

    "They do not have the need to communicate as you wish.  If they want information they obtain it themselves."
     
    I couldn't have said it better myself.  In most cases I would have to say that I don't believe what most people say because I am quite sure that there is a large amount of disinformation that gets distributed.



    mxr4ever -> RE: A Challenge to the New Pallet Industry (6/27/2008 7:25:23 PM)

    Amish?  Little paranoid aren't we?



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